Comments on: Blood Red Roses

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By: Phil

Phil — Sun, 23 Sep 2012 08:28:31 +0000

This seems to have originated from an American shanty called “Come down, you bunch of roses”, which in turn seems to have been based on a West Indian children’s rhyme.

Here’s me doing it recently, with some links to info on the shanty:

Come down you bunch of roses (52 Folk Songs)

By: Diana

Diana — Sun, 23 Sep 2012 07:15:41 +0000

One of the few that I must say I did not care for. The exception rather than the rule though.

By: normanden

normanden — Sun, 03 Oct 2010 10:23:58 +0000

We used to (attempt to) sing this in the pub in the late 60’s, always wondered how it got inland to Hereford!

By: Clive Lake

Clive Lake — Sun, 26 Sep 2010 13:13:11 +0000

Jane, Thanks for your comment. I can’t claim any credit. I have simply cut and pasted the introductory text, and these lyrics to “Blood Red Roses” from “Folk Den”. As well as this one, I notice that Jon Boden’s version of the “Rolling Down to Old Maui” shanty appeared on 23 August. (This was before I started to follow ‘A Folk Song A Day’.) McGuinn has recently added this song to his website. I dare say there already are, and probably will be more, instances of their shared good taste in song selection. Very best, Clive.

By: Jane Ramsden

Jane Ramsden — Fri, 24 Sep 2010 15:48:33 +0000

Clive, I didn’t know so I didn’t say, but I did think the song sounded as if it was switching between 2 stories/actions i.e. the work going on on board ship and another tale, reminiscence or whatever. Thanks for your excellent explanation!

By: Clive Lake

Clive Lake — Fri, 24 Sep 2010 15:35:36 +0000

There’s a version of this song, with much the same tune, on Roger McGuinn’s ‘Folk Den’ website. It’s one of 35 songs in the ‘Seafaring’ section. Thus: The chanteyman often used improvisation and parody in his solo lines to the advantage and amusement of the crew, but the chorus lines, on which the work action was based, were repetitive and changeless. For example, in using Blood Red Roses to raise the top-sails, top gallant sails (t’ga’n’s’ls), or sky-s’ls, the chanteyman, who on some ships also put his back to the task, would have sung:
Chanteyman: Our boots and clothes are all in pawn

Crew: Go down Ye blood red roses. Go down

Chanteyman: And its flamin’ drafty ’round Cape Horn

Crew: Go down Ye blood red roses. Go down

The word Go, was the signal for the men to haul back on the halyards.

Lyrics:
Our boots and clothes are all in pawn
Go down, you blood red roses, Go down.
And its flamin’ drafty ’round Cape Horn,
Go down, you blood red roses, Go down.
cho: Oh, you pinks and posies,
Go down, you blood red roses, Go down.
My dear old mother said to me,
My dearest son, come home from sea.
It’s ’round Cape Horn we all must go
‘Round Cape Horn in the frost and snow.
You’ve got your advance, and to sea you’ll go
To chase them whales through the frost and snow.
It’s ’round Cape Horn you’ve got to go,
For that is where them whalefish blow.
It’s growl you may, but go you must,
If you growl too much your head they’ll bust.
Just one more pull and that will do
For we’re the boys to kick her through.

By: Jane Ramsden

Jane Ramsden — Fri, 24 Sep 2010 00:26:33 +0000

@ Phil:

“cf.”Ring a Roses” and the plague – Aargh!”

Hahahahaha! The myth persists, though there may some truth in the one about ‘blood red roses’ being a euphemism for signs of venereal disease. I couldn’t cope with reading all the Mudcat info properly, but I did note one contributor said he thought the part of a ship reserved for sailors with VD was referred to as Rose Cottage. I thought the expression more commonly meant a temporary morgue, which I can’t see fitting this rousing song! (My timbers were a tadge too shivered by this rendition, Jon!)

Nor do I see how the connection with the uniforms of British soldiers in the Napoleonic Wars fits either, unless the alternative words ‘Come down, you bunch of roses’ is a means of calling out the enemy. One version seems to be a plea for a successful whale-harpooning, which would fit.

So the only new suggestion I can add is in relation to the roses themselves. Blood red roses are really black roses, since there is no such thing as a truly black rose. Throughout history, a black rose has been used by people to symbolise the end of a relationship, loss of a loved one, the sense of a person’s own mortality, or used to show the death of old habits (which last 2 meanings might fit here.)

Other than that, it will have to remain a secret… sub rosa, as the Romans used to say.

By: Jan

Jan — Thu, 23 Sep 2010 12:09:20 +0000

Jon’s verses sound more to me like Plains of Mexico(Watersons version) although they only knock two at a time even in their prime. Good shanty though, Jon!