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	<title>Comments on: The Old Songs</title>
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	<link>http://www.afolksongaday.com/2012/07/30/the-old-songs/</link>
	<description> Jon Boden</description>
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		<title>By: Pewter</title>
		<link>http://www.afolksongaday.com/2012/07/30/the-old-songs/comment-page-1/#comment-18182</link>
		<dc:creator>Pewter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 14:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.afolksongaday.com/?p=178#comment-18182</guid>
		<description>@John Bryson: It&#039;s good to hear that this brilliant song is not lost to live performance!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@John Bryson: It&#8217;s good to hear that this brilliant song is not lost to live performance!</p>
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		<title>By: Diana</title>
		<link>http://www.afolksongaday.com/2012/07/30/the-old-songs/comment-page-1/#comment-18180</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 13:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@Muzza: I thought Mrs Miggins only made pies for Mr. Blackadder. Never doughnuts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Muzza: I thought Mrs Miggins only made pies for Mr. Blackadder. Never doughnuts.</p>
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		<title>By: John Bryson</title>
		<link>http://www.afolksongaday.com/2012/07/30/the-old-songs/comment-page-1/#comment-18179</link>
		<dc:creator>John Bryson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 11:49:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.afolksongaday.com/?p=178#comment-18179</guid>
		<description>I think this is a great song - first heard it sung live early this year by Damien Darber and Mike Wilson. Apprpropriate as Peter Bellamy grew up in Norfolk (correct me if I&#039;m wrong) and Nelson was born there  - Damien is also born and bred in Norfolk</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is a great song &#8211; first heard it sung live early this year by Damien Darber and Mike Wilson. Apprpropriate as Peter Bellamy grew up in Norfolk (correct me if I&#8217;m wrong) and Nelson was born there  &#8211; Damien is also born and bred in Norfolk</p>
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		<title>By: Old Muzza(NW Surrey-UK)</title>
		<link>http://www.afolksongaday.com/2012/07/30/the-old-songs/comment-page-1/#comment-18177</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Muzza(NW Surrey-UK)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 11:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.afolksongaday.com/?p=178#comment-18177</guid>
		<description>Ref Admin Simon&#039;s link above 30th Jul..i.e. (sidetracked by this.)
The Latin word Quodlibeta means &quot;whatever you like&quot; ..........
cor blimey Guv...more like &quot;WHAT ARE YOU LIKE!&quot;...me nerves are shredded!...
and I must stop doing all the things listed...no wonder I have few friends..nobody told me!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ref Admin Simon&#8217;s link above 30th Jul..i.e. (sidetracked by this.)<br />
The Latin word Quodlibeta means &#8220;whatever you like&#8221; &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.<br />
cor blimey Guv&#8230;more like &#8220;WHAT ARE YOU LIKE!&#8221;&#8230;me nerves are shredded!&#8230;<br />
and I must stop doing all the things listed&#8230;no wonder I have few friends..nobody told me!</p>
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		<title>By: Old Muzza(NW Surrey-UK)</title>
		<link>http://www.afolksongaday.com/2012/07/30/the-old-songs/comment-page-1/#comment-18175</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Muzza(NW Surrey-UK)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 10:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.afolksongaday.com/?p=178#comment-18175</guid>
		<description>Admin Simon...... it&#039;s all your fault...look what started with your comment  on the 30th! ..........talk about &#039;Who let the dogs out!&quot;
@Jane above:- &#039;The Epistle of Jane the Apostle to the plebs&#039;..she sayeth....

&#039;So, we travel this route – (up the) duff -&gt; dough -&gt; pudding -&gt; penis -&gt; pregnant&#039;

Mrs Miggins cookery book says.....&quot;Replace &#039;pregnant&#039; with &#039;make hole in doughnuts&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Admin Simon&#8230;&#8230; it&#8217;s all your fault&#8230;look what started with your comment  on the 30th! &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.talk about &#8216;Who let the dogs out!&#8221;<br />
@Jane above:- &#8216;The Epistle of Jane the Apostle to the plebs&#8217;..she sayeth&#8230;.</p>
<p>&#8216;So, we travel this route – (up the) duff -&gt; dough -&gt; pudding -&gt; penis -&gt; pregnant&#8217;</p>
<p>Mrs Miggins cookery book says&#8230;..&#8221;Replace &#8216;pregnant&#8217; with &#8216;make hole in doughnuts&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Diana</title>
		<link>http://www.afolksongaday.com/2012/07/30/the-old-songs/comment-page-1/#comment-18172</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 08:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.afolksongaday.com/?p=178#comment-18172</guid>
		<description>@Jane@ Je regret that I did not realise you were referring to your French. Your command of the English language assures me that you elocute perfectly there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jane@ Je regret that I did not realise you were referring to your French. Your command of the English language assures me that you elocute perfectly there.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane Ramsden</title>
		<link>http://www.afolksongaday.com/2012/07/30/the-old-songs/comment-page-1/#comment-18171</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane Ramsden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 01:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.afolksongaday.com/?p=178#comment-18171</guid>
		<description>@ Diana:  Ref my elocution... I think it is when I start speaking a lot of &#039;French...&#039;  Hahahahaha!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Diana:  Ref my elocution&#8230; I think it is when I start speaking a lot of &#8216;French&#8230;&#8217;  Hahahahaha!</p>
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		<title>By: Diana</title>
		<link>http://www.afolksongaday.com/2012/07/30/the-old-songs/comment-page-1/#comment-18168</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 19:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.afolksongaday.com/?p=178#comment-18168</guid>
		<description>My God Jane, you have been doing some digging - most enjoyable reading too. I do hope Simon gets around to reading all that was written today - it is an education. Some of the phrases are familiar but not their origins. There  could be an endless discussion on this subject and one expression always seems to lead to another ad infinitum. I don&#039;t know what is wrong with yout elocution it sounds perfectly fine to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My God Jane, you have been doing some digging &#8211; most enjoyable reading too. I do hope Simon gets around to reading all that was written today &#8211; it is an education. Some of the phrases are familiar but not their origins. There  could be an endless discussion on this subject and one expression always seems to lead to another ad infinitum. I don&#8217;t know what is wrong with yout elocution it sounds perfectly fine to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane Ramsden</title>
		<link>http://www.afolksongaday.com/2012/07/30/the-old-songs/comment-page-1/#comment-18166</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane Ramsden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.afolksongaday.com/?p=178#comment-18166</guid>
		<description>Ahem...  From the same source:

&#039;To duff something, or duff it over,&#039; normally means to give it a new air, a new appearance, or otherwise manipulate it to make it seem better (or at least different) than it might otherwise seem.

Yes, &#039;doing someone over&#039; might well lead to a new or at least different appearance.... 

Don&#039;t get me started on all this!  I ended up looking up phrases like &#039;batsh1t bonkers&#039; - (Another one often applied to me, like the failed elocution lessons, and I can&#039;t think why!) - and what about &quot;now&#039;s the time to chase that squirrel?!&quot;   

However, ref the latter,  it is actually a square dance from American folklore, one of &#039;them there&#039; catch-the-girl-and-kiss-her games, like &#039;Oats and Beans and Barley Grow.&#039;  It may even go back to a morris dance, and is aka &#039;The Maid That Dare Not Tell.&#039;  Not sure what she dare not tell (save, perhaps, NOT kiss and tell) but, being a maid, we can be sure she&#039;s not &#039;up the duff!&#039;

The song itself can be found with music in &#039;Waltz The Hall: The American Play Party&#039; by Alan L. Spurgeon, but this is a better, more informative link with the words:

http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/chase-the-squirrel.aspx?skin=printerfriendly

It really is an old song!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahem&#8230;  From the same source:</p>
<p>&#8216;To duff something, or duff it over,&#8217; normally means to give it a new air, a new appearance, or otherwise manipulate it to make it seem better (or at least different) than it might otherwise seem.</p>
<p>Yes, &#8216;doing someone over&#8217; might well lead to a new or at least different appearance&#8230;. </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me started on all this!  I ended up looking up phrases like &#8216;batsh1t bonkers&#8217; &#8211; (Another one often applied to me, like the failed elocution lessons, and I can&#8217;t think why!) &#8211; and what about &#8220;now&#8217;s the time to chase that squirrel?!&#8221;   </p>
<p>However, ref the latter,  it is actually a square dance from American folklore, one of &#8216;them there&#8217; catch-the-girl-and-kiss-her games, like &#8216;Oats and Beans and Barley Grow.&#8217;  It may even go back to a morris dance, and is aka &#8216;The Maid That Dare Not Tell.&#8217;  Not sure what she dare not tell (save, perhaps, NOT kiss and tell) but, being a maid, we can be sure she&#8217;s not &#8216;up the duff!&#8217;</p>
<p>The song itself can be found with music in &#8216;Waltz The Hall: The American Play Party&#8217; by Alan L. Spurgeon, but this is a better, more informative link with the words:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/chase-the-squirrel.aspx?skin=printerfriendly" rel="nofollow">http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/chase-the-squirrel.aspx?skin=printerfriendly</a></p>
<p>It really is an old song!</p>
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		<title>By: Jane Ramsden</title>
		<link>http://www.afolksongaday.com/2012/07/30/the-old-songs/comment-page-1/#comment-18165</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane Ramsden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 17:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.afolksongaday.com/?p=178#comment-18165</guid>
		<description>@Skyman:  Just had a quick peruse of Quodlibeta and can&#039;t wait to read it properly later!  

I can see I shall have to moderate my descriptions.  (The lack of value in any elocution lessons I might have been given in life has been commented on many times!)  But, in my defence, I would just like to add the following edification from Phrasefinder:

Up the duff, meaning of - euphemism for pregnant.  Used most commonly, although not exclusively, to describe unplanned pregnancy.
 
Origin:  The phrase doesn&#039;t appear in print until 1941, in Sydney John Baker&#039;s Dictionary of Australian Slang:
 
&quot;Duff, up the (of a woman), pregnant.&quot;
 
&#039;Duff &#039;isn&#039;t a common word and seems an odd choice for a colloquial phrase.  (However, I found missen thinking of plum duff!)  It took a rather roundabout route...
 
As the phrase means pregnant, it shouldn&#039;t come as a major surprise that for the origin we need look no further than the penis.  (No indeedy!  As if I would ever look anywhere else!  Hahahahahahaha!)  As with many English phrases that refer to sexual activity, we dive straight into a world of euphemism and there are several obscuring layers here between penis and pregnancy. 

One of the numerous slang terms for the sexual organs, or more commonly specifically the penis, is pudding.  This has a long history, going back to at least the 18th century, as here from Thomas D&#039;Urfey&#039;s, &#039;Wit and mirth: or pills to purge melancholy,&#039; being a collection of ballads and songs, 1719:

&quot;I made a request to prepare again, That I might continue in Love with the strain Of his Pudding&quot;. 

A slang term for male masturbation, which leaves little to the imagination - &#039;pull one&#039;s pudding&#039;, has been known since at least the 19th century. 

There is a related phrase for pregnancy - &#039;in the pudding club&#039;, and it turns out that this and &#039;up the duff&#039; are essentially the same phrase.  By 1890, Barrère &amp; Leland, in their Dictionary of Slang, defined the term pudding club:
 
&quot;A woman in the family way is said to be in the pudding club.&quot;
 
Note that in those Victorian times the definition of a euphemistic term for pregnancy relied on another euphemism. 

&#039;Dough&#039; is another word for pudding and duff is an alternative form and pronunciation of dough.  That was in use by 1840, as here from R. H. Dana in &#039;Before the Mast:&#039;
 
&quot;To enhance the value of the Sabbath to the crew, they are allowed on that day a pudding, or, as it is called, a ‘duff’.&quot;
 
So, we travel this route - (up the) duff -&gt; dough -&gt; pudding -&gt; penis -&gt; pregnant. 

The more recent &#039;bun in the oven&#039;, another slang phrase for pregnant, may originate this way too. 

But now how does that relate to the expression &#039;duffing over,&#039; or &#039;duffing someone up&#039; as in giving them a good drubbing or beating?  The mind positively boggles!  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Skyman:  Just had a quick peruse of Quodlibeta and can&#8217;t wait to read it properly later!  </p>
<p>I can see I shall have to moderate my descriptions.  (The lack of value in any elocution lessons I might have been given in life has been commented on many times!)  But, in my defence, I would just like to add the following edification from Phrasefinder:</p>
<p>Up the duff, meaning of &#8211; euphemism for pregnant.  Used most commonly, although not exclusively, to describe unplanned pregnancy.</p>
<p>Origin:  The phrase doesn&#8217;t appear in print until 1941, in Sydney John Baker&#8217;s Dictionary of Australian Slang:</p>
<p>&#8220;Duff, up the (of a woman), pregnant.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8216;Duff &#8216;isn&#8217;t a common word and seems an odd choice for a colloquial phrase.  (However, I found missen thinking of plum duff!)  It took a rather roundabout route&#8230;</p>
<p>As the phrase means pregnant, it shouldn&#8217;t come as a major surprise that for the origin we need look no further than the penis.  (No indeedy!  As if I would ever look anywhere else!  Hahahahahahaha!)  As with many English phrases that refer to sexual activity, we dive straight into a world of euphemism and there are several obscuring layers here between penis and pregnancy. </p>
<p>One of the numerous slang terms for the sexual organs, or more commonly specifically the penis, is pudding.  This has a long history, going back to at least the 18th century, as here from Thomas D&#8217;Urfey&#8217;s, &#8216;Wit and mirth: or pills to purge melancholy,&#8217; being a collection of ballads and songs, 1719:</p>
<p>&#8220;I made a request to prepare again, That I might continue in Love with the strain Of his Pudding&#8221;. </p>
<p>A slang term for male masturbation, which leaves little to the imagination &#8211; &#8216;pull one&#8217;s pudding&#8217;, has been known since at least the 19th century. </p>
<p>There is a related phrase for pregnancy &#8211; &#8216;in the pudding club&#8217;, and it turns out that this and &#8216;up the duff&#8217; are essentially the same phrase.  By 1890, Barrère &amp; Leland, in their Dictionary of Slang, defined the term pudding club:</p>
<p>&#8220;A woman in the family way is said to be in the pudding club.&#8221;</p>
<p>Note that in those Victorian times the definition of a euphemistic term for pregnancy relied on another euphemism. </p>
<p>&#8216;Dough&#8217; is another word for pudding and duff is an alternative form and pronunciation of dough.  That was in use by 1840, as here from R. H. Dana in &#8216;Before the Mast:&#8217;</p>
<p>&#8220;To enhance the value of the Sabbath to the crew, they are allowed on that day a pudding, or, as it is called, a ‘duff’.&#8221;</p>
<p>So, we travel this route &#8211; (up the) duff -&gt; dough -&gt; pudding -&gt; penis -&gt; pregnant. </p>
<p>The more recent &#8216;bun in the oven&#8217;, another slang phrase for pregnant, may originate this way too. </p>
<p>But now how does that relate to the expression &#8216;duffing over,&#8217; or &#8216;duffing someone up&#8217; as in giving them a good drubbing or beating?  The mind positively boggles!  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!</p>
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